"Japan is the Mecca of classical music"

Paavo, can you remember your first concert in Japan?

It was with the Tokyo Symphony Orchestra - I think we played Sibelius' Symphony No. 5. That must have been about forty years ago, when there wasn't sushi in every corner. Japan was a completely new world for me back then, I felt like I was on another planet. The food, the traditions ... And you can't even guess at the language! Everything you can imagine seemed different to me.

Even the orchestra?

That was very good. The musicians were extremely attentive and focussed, they gave their all to make the concert a success. They also asked me to be music director at the time.

You became one much later - from 2015 to 2022 - at the NHK Symphony Orchestra in Tokyo. You ended up conducting this orchestra alongside the Tonhalle-Orchester Zürich. How do the two differ?

An orchestra is like a mirror of its environment. This is even more true in Tokyo than in Zurich, partly because almost all the musicians there are Japanese - here they are much more mixed in terms of origin. Japanese society is very hierarchically organised, and you can see that in musical life too. If someone wanted to talk to me, they needed permission from someone else, who in turn had received permission from someone else to grant this permission.

Symphony orchestras in the West are also organised hierarchically.

Yes, but in Japan it has another dimension. For example, it is very important for me to have eye contact with the musicians. But at first they avoided it because it was considered rude. I then asked them to look at me. It worked with the younger ones, and with the concertmasters anyway, they are on a different level hierarchically. Some of the older ones, on the other hand, insisted that it wasn't appropriate. That was okay, I understood where it was coming from. It's not a lack of connection, it's the culture, you have to respect that.

What other things have you noticed in everyday orchestral life?

The punctuality! If a rehearsal starts at 10 o'clock, the oboe plays its "a" at exactly 9.59. Or the precision: the musicians are always very well prepared; when a crescendo starts at a certain point, you can hear it. I have to communicate just as clearly if I want something different. In the style of: I know there's a crescendo here, but I want it a little later. This is notated and then it works.

You are a very spontaneous conductor, many things only emerge at the moment of the concert. How does that fit in with meticulous preparation?

In this respect, I deliberately didn't fulfil expectations - I did what the art demanded. That also worked well. As I said, the standard in the orchestra is high. Many of the musicians have studied in Europe or the USA, so they are used to our style anyway. We had really wonderful concerts with the NHK. I am very proud of this orchestra.

How much did you get involved with Japanese culture beyond the concert halls?

I've been everywhere! At sumō fights, in the kabuki theatre, at tea ceremonies ... Once we visited a sake brewery for a documentary, and there was a tea ceremony there too. I even wore a kimono there.

What's the first thing you do when you travel to Japan?

When I was still at NHK, my favourite massage parlour was right opposite my hotel. I used to go there regularly, which was necessary after travelling. There are also a few restaurants that I always go to. But in the first few days, I mainly sleep. The jet lag is brutal, it takes me more than a week to get used to the new time system. And I'm often travelling again after just one week ... I stayed at NHK for three weeks at a time, which suited me very well.

How did you find your way around linguistically back then?

The fascinating thing about Japan is that the need for a second language is not really pronounced there. Everyone in Europe speaks English, but not in Tokyo. I met owners of billion-dollar companies who couldn't say much more than "Hello" and "Cheers", they always had translators with them. Conversely, I was only able to memorise a few words. It is certainly possible to learn Japanese, but you have to put a lot of effort into it.

Do you have a favourite Japanese word?

In the morning, when you stand in front of the orchestra at a rehearsal, you say: "Ohayō gozaimasu", which means "good morning". It's expected, it's a sign of respect. Incidentally, I also like that in Japan: a certain form is always maintained. Even if someone doesn't like you, they never fall below a certain level in their personal interaction.

The Japanese public really like you ...

I don't know why, but there really is a large fan base there. After the concerts, there are always hundreds of people waiting at the artists' entrance. For some of them, it's almost a bit like stalking. But with most of them it's really touching. They have decided that this is what they want and are then very loyal.

How do you experience the audience during the concerts?

There is a very quiet, focussed attention. You get the feeling that the people in the hall are looking for that inner depth that exists in classical music - perhaps even more than elsewhere. Bruckner symphonies, for example, are a challenge almost everywhere because they are so long. Not in Japan, where you can feel that the audience can understand this music and really get involved with it.

Does this ability to listen also have to do with the quality of the concert halls?

No other country has as many outstanding concert halls as Japan! What they have to offer in terms of acoustics is truly incredible. Sometimes you conduct in a hall that is said to be okay, but not the best, not quite as great as the legendary Suntory Hall. And then it's so good that any city in the West would be happy to have it.

Is that one of the reasons why so many orchestras regularly travel to Japan?

Among other things. But also in other respects: Japan is the Mecca of classical music, with China and South Korea catching up. In South Korea, for example, you feel like a rock star - and the audience is even younger than in Japan. But Japan remains strong. Almost all of the CD box sets we produce are sold there. In Europe, most of them stream.

What reputation does the Tonhalle-Orchester Zürich have in Japan?

It is respected and loved, I noticed that a lot on the last tour. The next goal is adoration! Seriously, there are orchestras that have a certain glamour for historical reasons. Or that come from cities that seem more poetic from the outside than Zurich. We have to build up this aura step by step - but we are making good progress.

Do the soloists also play a role in this? In Japan, Janine Jansen is one of them.

Janine Jansen is a blessing in every respect, as a person and as a musician. But she is the cherry on the cake, so to speak; the most important thing remains the orchestra. It needs to be seen and heard. That takes time, and you have to be strategically skilful. Everything we do has to be interesting, every piece of the puzzle has to fit. The Japan tour is another such piece. And we will be good.

What will you take home with you from the tour?

Hopefully lots of musical memories! But certainly nothing material, I never do that. I like travelling light